2x Tire Wear Concerns | ApexOnlineRacing.com

2x Tire Wear Concerns


Dr sToneZz

F1 Sponsored Driver
Sep 10, 2015
547
488
I know I said in earlier post wait till halfway point well ignore that. Things need changing and changing fast. I personaly don't think it's the x2 wear that's the problem, real aids is the problem just x2 wear doesn't help the situation. Lost all love for the game and as for season 5 just can't be bothered anymore. Real aids was to make all cars equal yet in my championship we have a 2 car spread of manufacturers so that didn't work!
 

Tigerkart_22

AOR Podcast Quiz Multiple Winner
Premium Member
Sep 14, 2014
3,908
1,891
Just want to make one last point

For those who said the mediums or hards aren't an option, I'm sorry but why aren't they? I did a one stop on mediums at Sakitto and defended from those on a two stop on fresh soft tyres?
 

TonyR

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Nov 4, 2015
123
254
I know I said in earlier post wait till halfway point well ignore that. Things need changing and changing fast. I personaly don't think it's the x2 wear that's the problem, real aids is the problem just x2 wear doesn't help the situation. Lost all love for the game and as for season 5 just can't be bothered anymore. Real aids was to make all cars equal yet in my championship we have a 2 car spread of manufacturers so that didn't work!
We already had real aids last season and had 9 different cars on grid.

Just want to make one last point

For those who said the mediums or hards aren't an option, I'm sorry but why aren't they? I did a one stop on mediums at Sakitto and defended from those on a two stop on fresh soft tyres?
Because 1 Stop on Softs would have been much faster, even if you lose 10 sec in the end. Lap times in softs are much faster than on Medium so the gap increases rapidly until they give up.
 

Tigerkart_22

AOR Podcast Quiz Multiple Winner
Premium Member
Sep 14, 2014
3,908
1,891
We already had real aids last season and had 9 different cars on grid.



Because 1 Stop on Softs would have been much faster, even if you lose 10 sec in the end. Lap times in softs are much faster than on Medium so the gap increases rapidly until they give up.
But for me, I used the mediums and that moved me from 8th to 5th (before dropping to 6th)
 

TonyR

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Nov 4, 2015
123
254
But for me, I used the mediums and that moved me from 8th to 5th (before dropping to 6th)
And I got from P19 to P7 with 2 soft tire stints :D
You just need to drive for half an hour on both compounds and you can compare your absolute race time. I assure you softs will be faster ;)
 
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Tigerkart_22

AOR Podcast Quiz Multiple Winner
Premium Member
Sep 14, 2014
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And I got from P19 to P7 with 2 soft tire stints :D
You just need to drive for half an hour on both compounds and you can compare your absolute race time. I assure you softs will be faster ;)
I'm not the best on tyres, hence why I used the mediums (and it worked quite well for me in the end ;) )
(I'm also not the fastest, so I didn't really want to do a two stop ;) )

Fair enough softs will be faster, I just wanted to say that the mediums in particular can be an option for those wanting to do a one stop if they aren't able to do that on the softs! :)
 

Lanius1984

GP2 2nd Driver
Jun 20, 2016
402
360
But for me, I used the mediums and that moved me from 8th to 5th (before dropping to 6th)
You Quali time was almost identical to mine, and yet you finished 15 seconds slower on race time (I was also taken out by a back marker so had an unnecessary 30 second pit stop in the final couple of laps, so would have been 40-45 seconds quicker).

That is not necessarily a good reference as I think you were in a tougher battle in your race, but as we were both on 1 stop strategies, me on the softs both stints and you on mediums, it does show a wide gap between 2 people that had fairly similar pace.
 

TonyR

Formula 4 2nd Driver
Nov 4, 2015
123
254
I'm not the best on tyres, hence why I used the mediums (and it worked quite well for me in the end ;) )
(I'm also not the fastest, so I didn't really want to do a two stop ;) )

Fair enough softs will be faster, I just wanted to say that the mediums in particular can be an option for those wanting to do a one stop if they aren't able to do that on the softs! :)
You can safely read that test RSR member miagi did some time ago:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27185-TYRE-PHYSICS-DISCUSSION&p=1226691&viewfull=1#post1226691

Even if you are burning through the tires you will be faster on Softs, the gap to medium in lap time is just too big (as proven in miagi's test). Also, due to less grip in the mediums you feel like they give up not much later than the softs as there is a certain point where absolut grip level is just too low to keep the car on track.
 
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Lanius1984

GP2 2nd Driver
Jun 20, 2016
402
360
Given that everyone in the leagues has now had their opportunity to have a say on this issue, I'm not sure why we haven't had an update.
Continuing to debate a topic when the results are in seems pointless. As a newer member, it's a shame to see people frustrated in here and just left hanging. Maybe we should set up a thread for Brexit too (mind you, at least they gave us the bad news in good time)... :cigar:

One question for those of you that have been in these leagues longer than me - if 1 stop is the only viable strategy right now, what is the impact of 1x wear? From what I see on my M3, it would become a 0 stopper... or is the wear not as simple as that?
 

Tigerkart_22

AOR Podcast Quiz Multiple Winner
Premium Member
Sep 14, 2014
3,908
1,891
One question for those of you that have been in these leagues longer than me - if 1 stop is the only viable strategy right now, what is the impact of 1x wear? From what I see on my M3, it would become a 0 stopper... or is the wear not as simple as that?
From what I've seen it depends on the track for 1x tyre wear. A zero stop can be the best strategy at tracks like Bathurst but at Laguna Seca, the one stop was the way to go
 

AndrexUK

2 times PC Project Cars 2 Champion
Staff member
AC Coordinator
May 6, 2015
5,474
5,347
I agree with TonyR on the compound issue!
The grip difference (and therefore lap times) are probably about right. BUT, the durability of the different compunds does not match up. So you will be slower on the harder compounds, but they will not last long enough to compensate.

Yes, you were faster on 2x mediums compared to 3x softs, purely due to not loosing an extra 45 seconds for the extra stop.
As Tony said, had you been on softs, you would have been faster still.
I was a nudge faster on Tony, and started 17th, and finished 2nd. (The result of not having any incidents mainly).
But had I been on mediums, or x2 stops, I'm sure I would have been about 10th(ish).

I really can't think of a time when running mediums will gain you any time at all (quite the opposite).

And yes, x1 wear resulted in a very close match on many tracks, between 0 stopping, and 1 stopping.
And some tracks had a clear 0 stop advantage. But you had to drive well to conserve the tires to run a 0 stopper!

x2 is not double x1, because here, we uses SMSlogic. And I've not found anywhere that teaches SMSlogic to really understand it.
 

t0daY

Reigning AOR PC Formula Renault 3.5 Champion
Premium Member
Apr 7, 2016
353
508
You can safely read that test RSR member miagi did some time ago:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?27185-TYRE-PHYSICS-DISCUSSION&p=1226691&viewfull=1#post1226691

Even if you are burning through the tires you will be faster on Softs, the gap to medium in lap time is just too big (as proven in miagi's test). Also, due to less grip in the mediums you feel like they give up not much later than the softs as there is a certain point where absolut grip level is just too low to keep the car on track.
The test says everything, medium and hard are useless compared to the softs. It is a fact, we should not discuss about that anymore^^

More problematic is the falloff of the tires. With 2x tire wear it amplifies the gap between all GT3 cars big times. I don't want to hate the Z4 again (I drive it myself cause I love the car) but I lost around 1-1.5 second till the end of my stint. Papand and Tony more than 2-2.5 seconds if I remember correctly. Could be even more.

Different tire wear is completely normal and realistic. What could you do theoretically to compensate that? As in real life as in game.


A) First one would be different tire compound. We take our last race Sakitto, 35 laps.

Let's take the hard compound first. You basic laptime is round about 3-4 seconds slower. than the softs.
Best case: 35laps x 3seconds = 105seconds what you lose over the race if ur doing a no stopper.
Worst case: 35laps x 4seconds = 140seconds
In 100/140 seconds I can pit easily twice and get everytime fresh soft tires.

Mediums next. The tire wear of the Mediums compared to the softs are almost identical. Pace difference is about 1-2 seconds. I highly doubt it that u can do a 0 stopper with Mediums. So you need at least 1 stop. Compared to 1 stop with softs it is slower.

All in all (obviously I just throw numbers around but unfortunately it is how it is) different compounds are not worth. Softs are the fastest approach to be competitive.


B) Obviously do 2 stops with softs. Well that's another thing. Let's take again the Sakitto example with 35 laps.

2 stops = 11/12 laps a stint. You lose probably 30-40 seconds for a pitstop (depends on the track though). Highly unrealistic u can make up 30-40 seconds in 11 laps. Ask @Papand if he would finish top 5 with 2 stops. Nearly impossible. Of course we are just talking about a perfect race without crashes spins and whatever. Obviously the "reality" in our races is different. But it won't change the facts.


All in all that is the problem with 2x tire wear. Nothing to do with driving aids or how you drive. There are no alternatives with 2x.
1 stop is the way to go cause 2 stops in a one hour race is too much. Different tire compounds are also useless as stated before. It is not about bashing a specific car or driver, it is just logical thinking about it. And the races we did so far just confirmed all of it above.

Little side note, also 2x tire wear is much harder on pad user than wheel user. Best example was the last race. Me and @Fredde had an awesome battle for P3. His pace was quicker than mine when his tires were fine. Once the degradation started he lost so much more time compared to me. That is also a side effect of 2x. It is more hard to pads than to wheels. (some people don't give a **** about and just comment that with "buy a wheel", other (me including) thinking differently about it. Pad users should have the same chances than we wheel users)

I still do not see any benefits of having 2x tire wear... And I did not mention yet the crazy FFB rattle which is quite dangerous for your wheel. And no its not simulating a flatspot or tire wear. The effect is more a bug which is too strong and destructive. I think @Yorkie065 can confirm that.

Long post is over, cheers :D
 
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FOGGY #7

AOR PS4 Project CARS Champion
Premium Member
Dec 30, 2015
4,203
3,939
Just want to make one last point

For those who said the mediums or hards aren't an option, I'm sorry but why aren't they? I did a one stop on mediums at Sakitto and defended from those on a two stop on fresh soft tyres?
Yes, but you had a false position in final classification results.I completely messed my pit strategy up . Got a few time pens .Which cost me loads of posisitions on track .And found myself racing cars and got held up by those on the medium tyre choice , If my race had gone to plan. I wouldn't of been battling with racers on the Medium tyre choice . Tyre choice for a race is all good for a plan to be executed,but if you cant get a consistent run.Its a complete waste of time picking any sort of race strategy with tyres. But when your playing catch up, tyres will burn up as soon as you push. So i found myself going a lot slower than i wanted to . Just so i didnt need to pit for a 3rd Time .Just saying .!;):) Also i would like to point out that changing Real Assists on PS4 for this season.We lost some very fast Hardcore Racers.:(Which was a huge Disappointment to loose good racers.
 
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Dr sToneZz

F1 Sponsored Driver
Sep 10, 2015
547
488
Just thought I would try the nordschleife with the league settings. with x2 tyre wear, the difference in grip lap to lap is way too much. I know you have too adapt to the evolution of conditions but the change lap by lap in grip is too severe round the green hell. Especially with the penalty system for running just that little bit wide. Yeah can get 3 maybe 4 laps in at a push but the drop in lap times by the end of the stint is nearly 10 seconds a lap.

I'm in the mclaren my 4 lap stint, lap 1 - 6.43
Lap 2 - 6.46
Lap 3 - 6.50
Lap 4 - 6.57 (invalid lap off track + spin)

Round small tracks if you make a mistake because of no grip you can limp round to the pits within 2mins, here with the speeds carried and also close barriers any mistake on worn tyres is going to be a big off with a looooooooong drive back to the pits. The other option being tip toe round the lap losing any thrill of racing.
 

Dr sToneZz

F1 Sponsored Driver
Sep 10, 2015
547
488
“At the request of the Teams and Commercial Rights Holder, the FIA has agreed to adopt a more liberal approach to the interpretations of Article 27.1 (that a driver must drive the car “on x2 tyre wear").

:p
 
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Def

Moderator
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Moderator
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Jun 3, 2016
5,231
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I always heard PC has different coding than consoles due to the fact the Z4 is not the best that it is on consoles or the fact those PC guys are just that good. Either way we just need to keep our heads down and just race regardless we like how rules go I mean it's why we signed up for AOR in the first place!
It's not even about the Z4. Tyre cooling is different between consoles and PC, since patch 9.0