AOR Formula Renault 2.0 Championship S4 - Round 4: Brands Hatch | ApexOnlineRacing.com

AOR Formula Renault 2.0 Championship S4 - Round 4: Brands Hatch


Gunar Nijenhuis

F1 1st Driver
Sep 2, 2015
613
820
If none of those drivers feel bothered enough to make an enquiry, why should we?
That is a fair question. I think that none of the involved drivers bother because nobody really knows what happened and don't like to point fingers to someone. I fully understand that steward stuff is not a rewarding job but to prevent this stuff from happening people should be hold responsible for their actions.
 
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FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,681
13,612
That is a fair question. I think that none of the involved drivers bother because nobody really knows what happened and don't like to point fingers to someone. I fully understand that steward stuff is not a rewarding job but to prevent this stuff from happening people should be hold responsible for their actions.
I see your point. I think my stance on this is probably affected by being incredibly tired of doing stewards work in general since the F1 leagues have loads and loads of enquiries every week lol, which takes up an annoying amount of time for something that is ultimately very unrewarding. So because of that I generally don't want to add to that by investigating stuff unless there's an actual request for it, if that makes sense. But yeah anyway, this one will be looked into now so we will see what happens :)
 

Hoff

FR2.0 S4 Pre-Season Sprint Race Winner
Premium Member
Jan 29, 2014
673
623
Fair enough. I just felt your post came across slightly hostile with "oh so you're saying there won't be any punishments".
Apologies if it read like that but couldn't be further from the truth. Sorry.

Either way, it has been reported now so it will be looked into. Wasn't that hard was it.
Speaking of hostile.

I see your point. I think my stance on this is probably affected by being incredibly tired of doing stewards work in general since the F1 leagues have loads and loads of enquiries every week lol, which takes up an annoying amount of time for something very unrewarding. So because of that I generally don't want to add to that by investigating stuff unless there's an actual request for it, if that makes sense. But yeah anyway, this one will be looked into now so we will see what happens :)
I have mentioned multiple times that I would assist the league in any way I can. I appreciate I am a driver so my incidents I couldn't look at personally but I would certainly help maintain the rest of them.

Disregarding my moaning, bitchy posts I am a pretty level headed chap who has watched racing all his 28 years alive so I feel I am about as qualified as anyone to judge fairly.

But in the case half the field is knocked out in lap 1, stewards should definitely take a look and/or action
I was genuinely surprised to not have seen something mentioned or action taken, ESPECIALLY after the uproar of the Govand incident.
 
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Kez

iRacing Coordinator
Staff member
iRacing Coordinator
Jan 13, 2014
2,253
1,743
Let us not forget that Govand was a repeat offender, hence the post-race reaction at the time. In light of his history, action needed to be taken in the aftermath of that particular incident.

In my view this is an uncomfortable one to call. Three drivers could have done things differently in a split second and this could have changed the outcome of the incident:
- Phil may have squeezed Chris but does Chris voluntarily move onto the grass on the inside or does he bounce there following the initial touch? You could argue that Phil is going to lose out on his overtaking attempt before Chris took to the grass, voluntarily or otherwise.

- It looks like Chris accelerates on the grass and this leads to him beginning to lose control of his car. Is this something he could have avoided? Would he have been able to catch the car in time? I've not seen a driver be punished by the stewards for losing control of the car before, and if he does then that sets a pretty dangerous precedent which isn't going to be popular.

- JF hits Chris pretty hard and arguably this is the spark. Without seeing his telemetry or his onboard it's difficult to really understand what is going on in the cockpit - does he make an attempt to slow down and take appropriate evasive action? Has he got his foot down? However, if you see a car flying left and right violently in front of you can you really do much?
 

Gunar Nijenhuis

F1 1st Driver
Sep 2, 2015
613
820
There was an incident in which I lost control. iirc it was on Interlagos with Fredrik but there wasn't a penalty.

That analysis by @Kez is spot on and at the same time the exact reason this should be judged by stewards. In such big incidents it's very hard to blame just one person because it's often a chain of events.
But it's happened in every single race so far and that is just unacceptable.

Often in these big crashes it's the people that don't brake/reduce speed and anticipate on the accident happening in front of them that create massive wipeouts.

I started 24th so way back from the accident and saw it coming from a mile. People were still literally flying over my rear wing and making things worse.
 
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frejo

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 16, 2015
305
338
If none of those drivers feel bothered enough to make an enquiry, why should we?
Because pile ups like this will affect the reputation of the league, if they continue? Not saying that it's the stewards responsibility to look into every incident (obviously) but for pile ups like this, especially when we are starting to see a pattern I think should be looked into.

I can understand though that it's dead boring to do though. Not sure how you handle this now and how many you are, but can't we setup the type of system that was in place for the 2k cup? You reported incidents via a web page and then the stewards anonymously "voted" (with a reason given) on who was to blame (or racing incident) and the majority of stewards (I think there were 5?) made up the decision.

And please, no rolling starts!
 

Jarnoh

Formula 3 Test Driver
May 13, 2015
195
95
Rolling starts......no please no. It is an open wheel class and that means it comes with a standing start. But most of all, battle with respect towards each other and know when to back out. Especially in the first lap when youre driving on ice sometimes. Chances will come later in the race. Youre most likely to lose the race than to win it with those lap 1 risktakings.
 

Lorrentz

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
3,159
1,700
Maybe we can do some grid simulation with a 3 lap sprint race with random grid orders during practise on thursday lets say at every even hour...just let @StevieSQ be in control to grid up everyone manually and do a countdown to start just to practise it a bit with the drivers who are in the thursday practise...
 

FisiFan91

AOR Founder (on hiatus)
Staff member
AOR Admin
Jan 12, 2014
17,681
13,612
Because pile ups like this will affect the reputation of the league, if they continue? Not saying that it's the stewards responsibility to look into every incident (obviously) but for pile ups like this, especially when we are starting to see a pattern I think should be looked into.

I can understand though that it's dead boring to do though. Not sure how you handle this now and how many you are, but can't we setup the type of system that was in place for the 2k cup? You reported incidents via a web page and then the stewards anonymously "voted" (with a reason given) on who was to blame (or racing incident) and the majority of stewards (I think there were 5?) made up the decision.
Sure, I agree with you about the reputation thing as this is very important to me as well of course. I think it would have been easier if the incident had been more clear-cut about who was at fault tbh (like for example Keanie's one when he was already on a streak of causing collisions and still chose to go for an aggressive lap 1 move), as when it's not clear-cut you don't really know if any potential action will make a difference. The system you suggest still would require someone to report it (unless I misunderstood) and is basically what we do already, except for the anonymous part (unless in your system all of the stewards' reasonings are published individually, rather than just the majority outcome?).

The thing that is kind of annoying with the major incidents so far this season - from the point of view of trying to figure out how to sort it - is that they have all essentially come from small driver mistakes at a bad time leading to a big chain reaction, and I don't really know if anything can be done about this except asking people to stop making mistakes and focus entirely on this at the start, rather than trying to gain positions (many probably do this already, me being one).
 

Tekesh

AOR iRacing FR2.0 Season 5 Champion
Staff member
iRacing Coordinator
Aug 11, 2015
194
356
With the way @FisiFan91 has been dodging left and right to stay out of the spotlight I got a bit suspicious, so I went ahead and analyzed the Brands Hatch carnage and look what I found! It all makes sense now. Him not wanting to put blame and claiming that his record file was somehow broken. It was him all along! (Pointing finger). He set this all up to get a perfect 100th race. :eek:
 

Hoff

FR2.0 S4 Pre-Season Sprint Race Winner
Premium Member
Jan 29, 2014
673
623
We're actually going to be introducing fanboost.
I saw you in the chat last night. What a mess that was :rofl:

Edit: Just read that they have given it back to Huis.
 
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Lorrentz

Premium Member
Premium Member
Jan 13, 2014
3,159
1,700
Just to blend into the conversation once more...

I think the main "problem" of this league is that we are a very social club of racers and we dont want to blame other racers. we mainly sort out issues with each other just get over with and continue to the next race...when I just joined this part of AOR (I came from the ps3/4 side of F1 and project cars league s) I still had the mentality of that group of racers...on that side there were steward enquirys every race..and i was a cod there and i didnt like to handle it as well but its part of the job...

So when i switched over from ps4 to pc and came over here i still had the mentality of making steward enquirys when i felt i was victim...but soon I some sort of felt it wasnt that much appreciated when you do that and it was more common to sort it out between the drivers...

After I made that switch in my mind and sort it out with the drivers itself I agree it felt a lot better cuz you dont want other drivers to get penaltys cuz everybody makes mistakes. But the downside of that is that steward enquiries get useless....if i remember correctly the last enquiry was from my teammate tye in cota and didnt even get a outcome? So when thats the case the enquiries become a character of itself and are useless

The main problem here is that all the incidents this year are in the first lap and collect many many other drivers along them. Now we have two races we have twice the amount of chance that anything goes wrong...

Personally i think there is no measure possible to take to get rid of these things it has been a different driver every race so far who caused the chaos...maybe we can implement some practise start with 35 cars during the practise session...

Then again...i watched the vegas erace last night...and wow that made us look a million times more proffesional....that game was ****...that broadcast was ****...that commentators were ****...and the camera work was **** (i have used up all my shittys for this season)..and also these best simracers in the world did crash hilariously...
So after seeing that AOR and GSRC are still the very best in the world by a million miles

We have a bunch of great drivers and very nice personality's in this league and i am 100% convinced that we can keep it clean in brasil
 
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Tye

GP2 Test Driver
Jun 26, 2015
323
486
There's really not much can be done about this other than people need to take yellow flags and spotter warnings seriously.

We've always had standing starts and cold tyres on lap 1 yet only a problem with pile ups since the start of this season so there's really no good reason as to why this keeps happening. I feel really bad for Phil and Christoph as the crash has opened up a huge can of worms when really theyve only made a fairly small mistake each. People who have been taken out of a race in one of these pileups can't complain if they've not slowed for the incident. For example Andy Cowey on friday, not saying you caused anything here but you went flying through all that carnage, it was a mix of great skill and pure luck that you got through however were you to recieve damage from that pile up imo you wouldn't have had a good reason to appeal or anything since you didn't slow much.

There's obviously a few factors to these pile ups but i think the main issue is people seeing a crash as an opportunity to gain positions. Oh and like a few others have said please for the love of god no rolling starts.
 

Jarnoh

Formula 3 Test Driver
May 13, 2015
195
95
There's really not much can be done about this other than people need to take yellow flags and spotter warnings seriously.

We've always had standing starts and cold tyres on lap 1 yet only a problem with pile ups since the start of this season so there's really no good reason as to why this keeps happening. I feel really bad for Phil and Christoph as the crash has opened up a huge can of worms when really theyve only made a fairly small mistake each. People who have been taken out of a race in one of these pileups can't complain if they've not slowed for the incident. For example Andy Cowey on friday, not saying you caused anything here but you went flying through all that carnage, it was a mix of great skill and pure luck that you got through however were you to recieve damage from that pile up imo you wouldn't have had a good reason to appeal or anything since you didn't slow much.

There's obviously a few factors to these pile ups but i think the main issue is people seeing a crash as an opportunity to gain positions. Oh and like a few others have said please for the love of god no rolling starts.
That last few lines you mention. They could be a big part of these pileups indeed. Slowing down shouldnt be too much too ask. Fully agreed with the above.
[DOUBLEPOST=1483876541][/DOUBLEPOST]
Just to blend into the conversation once more...

I think the main "problem" of this league is that we are a very social club of racers and we dont want to blame other racers. we mainly sort out issues with each other just get over with and continue to the next race...when I just joined this part of AOR (I came from the ps3/4 side of F1 and project cars league s) I still had the mentality of that group of racers...on that side there were steward enquirys every race..and i was a cod there and i didnt like to handle it as well but its part of the job...

So when i switched over from ps4 to pc and came over here i still had the mentality of making steward enquirys when i felt i was victim...but soon I some sort of felt it wasnt that much appreciated when you do that and it was more common to sort it out between the drivers...

After I made that switch in my mind and sort it out with the drivers itself I agree it felt a lot better cuz you dont want other drivers to get penaltys cuz everybody makes mistakes. But the downside of that is that steward enquiries get useless....if i remember correctly the last enquiry was from my teammate tye in cota and didnt even get a outcome? So when thats the case the enquiries become a character of itself and are useless

The main problem here is that all the incidents this year are in the first lap and collect many many other drivers along them. Now we have two races we have twice the amount of chance that anything goes wrong...

Personally i think there is no measure possible to take to get rid of these things it has been a different driver every race so far who caused the chaos...maybe we can implement some practise start with 35 cars during the practise session...

Then again...i watched the vegas erace last night...and wow that made us look a million times more proffesional....that game was ****...that broadcast was ****...that commentators were ****...and the camera work was **** (i have used up all my shittys for this season)..and also these best simracers in the world did crash hilariously...
So after seeing that AOR and GSRC are still the very best in the world by a million miles

We have a bunch of great drivers and very nice personality's in this league and i am 100% convinced that we can keep it clean in brasil
That race was idiotic to say the least. Constantly crashing people on camera. That race was a joke for simracing. Our races like the feature race last friday is a joy to watch! My Friends and family love to watcu them!
 

Rin Hato

AOR Space Race Champion
Oct 17, 2016
1,120
987
Slowing down is vital, especially on cold tyres. I haven't been involved in any of the pile ups so far, and rarely in official races because I always try to anticipate what's coming next. Lift off, feather the brake, look and listen. You dont win on the first lap, and the reverse grid change isn't the problem, people just need to calm down and pace themselves. Thats the most important thing.

(On another note, can I get a link to the Govand Incident and the Vegas race? For uh, research :b )
 
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