Important Notice On Track Limits | ApexOnlineRacing.com

Important Notice On Track Limits


Yorkie065

SMS Representative
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
AOR Commentator
Jan 19, 2014
1,543
2,422
So, track limits. It has been spoken about plenty in the past over multiple seasons, so I want to keep this nice and clear in order to ensure everyone is on the same page as to how we will be working them here at AOR with Project CARS 2 for Season 9 and beyond.

Having read the rules and agreeing to them, you should all understand that the ruling for a breach of track limits here at AOR is 2 wheels must stay within the white lines (or whatever coloured line is used at the track) at all times. 2 Wheels ON or touching the white line is fine and is legal, but the moment you go 3 or all 4 wheels beyond the white line, you have breached track limits. At this point, or as soon as it is safe to do so, you should lift off the throttle and slow your speed to negate any possible advantage being/that has been gained. Unless it is obviously clear that you have lost time (seconds or positions), you should clearly lift and show a clear attempt to negate any advantage just to be safe. As stated in the leagues rules, consistently exceeding track limits and failing to give up any time gained could see you in front of the stewards and receiving a penalty or possibly multiple penalties in the case of multiple instances.

Now in order to help us (the AOR Coordinators) police track limits, we will be using the in-game penalty system in Project CARS 2, and here is where we want everyone to be clear and on the same page in order to avoid confusion or people feeling like they're being treated unfairly. The track limit detection system is near enough identical to our ruling, if slightly relaxed compared to ours, so in any case that you get an in-game warning instructing you to slow down and give up time gained, you must do so and clear that warning. If you fail to clear the warning, the penalty system will give you a time penalty which will be applied to your overall race time, and will remain as part of your results unless you get an in-game penalty in the following circumstances:
1- You are unable to clear the time penalty within the warnings time frame, and you get a time penalty that in no way resembles the amount of time you would have gained (i.e. 30 second time penalty for less than 1 second time gained).
2- You have made a significantly clear attempt to clear the warning, that is clearly far greater than the time you would have gained, yet it is still not clearing (i.e. you've been trying to give up time for multiple seconds). In this case, evidence would need to be provided in order for the stewards to remove the time penalty post race, and to which it would be down to the stewards discretion as to whether the penalty will be removed or will still stand.
3- You unfairly get a time penalty when avoiding an incident. Again, evidence would need to be provided in order for the stewards to remove the in-game time penalty which also clearly demonstrates that you did not gain any time or advantage in avoiding the incident.
In all other instances, you must clear the warning that appears in-game from the in-game system as the accuracy of the system and the ease at which you can give back time have been improved.

If you get a warning, lift slightly or half a second to what you believe is appropriate, and then choose to ignore the rest of the warning, you will not have your penalty removed unless it is clear you fall into one of the above 3 exemptions.

This is all done in order of fairness and competitive racing, and to avoid a repeat of some confusion that we had in the last few rounds of season 8 where people were lifting to fully clear in-game penalties, whilst others were lifting for half a second, and then continuing and taking time penalties to stewards for removal (9 times out of 10, they weren't).

Please, if you have any questions on the above, feel free to post them and we shall get back to you.
 

DaWu

AOR PC GT3 Semi-Pro S8 Champion
May 22, 2017
715
474
I was doing some test runs on COTA and you should have an eye for the penaltys!
Bcs they just go away even without a lift... like in some corners on Nürburgring...
 
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Shooter80

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Dec 23, 2017
986
1,123
Respecting/Clearing in-game penalties makes perfect sense to me. Thanks. After patch 4 they seem more than fair from my point of view.

My concern is Red Bull Ring, going outside the lines, but not getting an in-game penalty is >1sec a lap faster. If someone, for example, found themselves with a clear gap ahead and behind, there is little to stop them from using what the game allows, allowing easy catch-up of cars ahead.

Only someone spectating and watching that particular car, or somebody with a lot of spare time and patience going through the replays would ever notice.
 

Yorkie065

SMS Representative
Staff member
PCARS Coordinator
AOR Commentator
Jan 19, 2014
1,543
2,422
Respecting/Clearing in-game penalties makes perfect sense to me. Thanks. After patch 4 they seem more than fair from my point of view.

My concern is Red Bull Ring, going outside the lines, but not getting an in-game penalty is >1sec a lap faster. If someone, for example, found themselves with a clear gap ahead and behind, there is little to stop them from using what the game allows, allowing easy catch-up of cars ahead.

Only someone spectating and watching that particular car, or somebody with a lot of spare time and patience going through the replays would ever notice.
That is where everyone needs to be respectful, honest and sporting with each other, as it has happened in the past. But if they think they can get away with breaching track limits because no one is close on track around them, they'd be wrong! Everyone participating is required to save replays at the end of the race, so if at any point you suspect someone of doing such a thing, you can go back and check and then post any evidence in the stewards.

The penalties that the stewards apply for track limits breaches which don't have an attempt to negate any advantage, are much harsher than what the game applies and if someone is found to be consistently doing it over multiple rounds, they will be removed from the league. Just because someone has a big gap to the driver behind and/or in front of them, it DOES NOT make them exempt from the rules!
 

Shooter80

Assetto Corsa Coordinator
Staff member
AC Coordinator
Premium Member
Dec 23, 2017
986
1,123
Thanks for the reply, that all sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I'll, of course, stick by the rules as written.

Just thought it would be useful to have mentioned this early on, as it will make any discussions at the time simpler. I expect a few fellow rookies will get caught out by this.
 

Ulti

Formula 4 2nd Driver
May 5, 2016
110
83
So basically the best thing to do is to obviously try and record your races. Nvidia okes can try and use the Quick Record thing where it saves the past few minutes as I know recording files can be insanely big.
 
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SteveO916

F1 Senna Equivalent
Dec 20, 2016
958
644
So basically the best thing to do is to obviously try and record your races. Nvidia okes can try and use the Quick Record thing where it saves the past few minutes as I know recording files can be insanely big.
you just need to save the replay at the end of the race. You can then watch the race from everybodies POV. If you need to take anything to the stewards you can just playback the replay and record the clip you need.
 

King-kodiak

AOR Head Commentator
Staff member
Moderator
F1 Coordinator
AOR Commentator
May 10, 2016
3,981
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Also remember that there are commentators lurking in the background as well for Elite. We won't be raising stewards enquiries of our own, however many times in the past, our streams have been used as evidence, meaning you have more chance for getting caught of you are pushing your luck too far. If the stream sees a cut, this could lead to someone reviewing the replay to see if it happens alot more.

Just something to bear in mind
 
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Ulti

Formula 4 2nd Driver
May 5, 2016
110
83
you just need to save the replay at the end of the race. You can then watch the race from everybodies POV. If you need to take anything to the stewards you can just playback the replay and record the clip you need.
From what I've seen from Replays in the past, it can sometimes just look like a laggy mess. I never trust replays:lol:
 

SteveA

Formula Karter
Jan 16, 2018
59
23
You can see it quite easy if its lag or just driving outside the lines/rules.. I Think that it is really good that u adress this matter.
Ive Heard from a friend that drove in the pro leaugue last season that u dont apply the "Competitive racing licence" i the game?
This would in my mind be a great way to get people not to take unecessary risks or driving of the track beqause this would result
in a big dropp in your licens :).
Looking forward to the start of this season.
 

Michel--NL

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
PCARS Coordinator
Premium Member
Sep 11, 2016
10,889
7,397
You can see it quite easy if its lag or just driving outside the lines/rules.. I Think that it is really good that u adress this matter.
Ive Heard from a friend that drove in the pro leaugue last season that u dont apply the "Competitive racing licence" i the game?
This would in my mind be a great way to get people not to take unecessary risks or driving of the track beqause this would result
in a big dropp in your licens :).
Looking forward to the start of this season.
For season 9 we have turned the competitive racing license on (y)
 

Oblit0r

Formula 4 1st Driver
Jan 10, 2018
165
122
On some occasions I had to give back a position because I went outside of the white lines to avoid someone who spun. The game then tells me to give back the position, but what happens if you don't give back the position? Do you get a time penalty or do you get disqualified?
 

S4Howie

GP2 Reserve Driver
Nov 1, 2017
366
263
On some occasions I had to give back a position because I went outside of the white lines to avoid someone who spun. The game then tells me to give back the position, but what happens if you don't give back the position? Do you get a time penalty or do you get disqualified?
In qualifying, your current time is invalidated. In the race, you get a time penalty
Yesterday i did a race in silverstone, 2 people in front of me had an incident. One hittet the other under braking,and spun him out and he also left track,somehow i could manage to go around them but i think i touched one slightly. The Game then decided to see me as part of the incident and told me to give 1 position back to 1 of the 2 drivers i have passed due to their incident. The game gave me 30 sec to solve my penalty and give position back,what was nearly imposible due to the other driver needed to recover from incident and i was already 10 second ahead. I waited some time even if i didnt saw any mistake on my side,and i had lost time already to the leaders. I realized then even if i nearly stop and wait the one will not get past me in time. So i didnt wait and just kept on goin,cause i thought the game will just give me a time penalty.
But the result was the game gave me a drive trough penalty,which i served then cause i think it leads to a DSQ if not been served.But the race was totally screwed then for me.

How to act in that situation ask my self now? You can just serve the Penalty and loose lot of time and even positions or you can ignore it and be DSQ.Nowether what your race will be totally screwed for nothing you could avoid off.
 

Marvin

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
iRacing Coordinator
PCARS Coordinator
Premium Member
Aug 6, 2016
3,481
2,512
Yesterday i did a race in silverstone, 2 people in front of me had an incident. One hittet the other under braking,and spun him out and he also left track,somehow i could manage to go around them but i think i touched one slightly. The Game then decided to see me as part of the incident and told me to give 1 position back to 1 of the 2 drivers i have passed due to their incident. The game gave me 30 sec to solve my penalty and give position back,what was nearly imposible due to the other driver needed to recover from incident and i was already 10 second ahead. I waited some time even if i didnt saw any mistake on my side,and i had lost time already to the leaders. I realized then even if i nearly stop and wait the one will not get past me in time. So i didnt wait and just kept on goin,cause i thought the game will just give me a time penalty.
But the result was the game gave me a drive trough penalty,which i served then cause i think it leads to a DSQ if not been served.But the race was totally screwed then for me.

How to act in that situation ask my self now? You can just serve the Penalty and loose lot of time and even positions or you can be DSQ.
Drive-Throughs are always off in the league races.
 
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rciq

Formula Karter
Dec 21, 2017
66
55
Respecting/Clearing in-game penalties makes perfect sense to me. Thanks. After patch 4 they seem more than fair from my point of view.

My concern is Red Bull Ring, going outside the lines, but not getting an in-game penalty is >1sec a lap faster. If someone, for example, found themselves with a clear gap ahead and behind, there is little to stop them from using what the game allows, allowing easy catch-up of cars ahead.

Only someone spectating and watching that particular car, or somebody with a lot of spare time and patience going through the replays would ever notice.
The thing with Red Bull Ring is that Project Cars has some weird track variant with the super-wide astroturfs from 2013, but colors from 2017. In real life the kerbs were redesigned multiple times due to safety reasons, most notably in 2016. See this:

Current:
RBR 2017.jpg

Old (2014 - Google still has this in street view):
RBR 2013.jpg

Current:
RBR 2017.gif

2013 (freestyle):
RBR 2013.gif

It looks like In 2013 it was generally OK to go wide in some corners. The game seems to be only trying to emulate that old reality. It's not like the level designer forgot to set track limits. It seems they are wider in specific places by design. Soooo maybe we could just accept that, instead of trying to enforce current standards on what seems to be an old track model. Otherwise the stewards are going to have a hell of a job attempting to accurately (and fairly) penalize everyone where the game didn't.
 

King-kodiak

AOR Head Commentator
Staff member
Moderator
F1 Coordinator
AOR Commentator
May 10, 2016
3,981
2,582
The thing with Red Bull Ring is that Project Cars has some weird track variant with the super-wide astroturfs from 2013, but colors from 2017. In real life the kerbs were redesigned multiple times due to safety reasons, most notably in 2016. See this:

Current:
View attachment 38377

Old (2014 - Google still has this in street view):
View attachment 38376

Current:
View attachment 38375

2013 (freestyle):
View attachment 38374

It looks like In 2013 it was generally OK to go wide in some corners. The game seems to be only trying to emulate that old reality. It's not like the level designer forgot to set track limits. It seems they are wider in specific places by design. Soooo maybe we could just accept that, instead of trying to enforce current standards on what seems to be an old track model. Otherwise the stewards are going to have a hell of a job attempting to accurately (and fairly) penalize everyone where the game didn't.
As soon as you go down that route, you open the door for "This extension on needs to be allowed, you did it for the Red bull ring" over and over and over again. You also make the stewards job harder, not easier, by adding more things to remember ( is this extend allowed or not ). It's far easier to govern properly to have 1 set of rules for all tracks, and it's not like you can't see where the lines are
 
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