PC - Round 19 - Brazilian Grand Prix [12/03/18 8:00pm] | ApexOnlineRacing.com

PC Round 19 - Brazilian Grand Prix [12/03/18 8:00pm]


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Steve Jackson

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I like the idea, but I don't think we can expect people to have the same spacial awareness or discipline to check their mirrors as an F1 driver. It might stop SOME people from doing risky moves, but there'll be people who will still do them and are more likely to fail them because of it. I don't even think 'risky' moves are bad. They make for some good racing, as long as people sort of know what they are doing and have enough awareness (be it though arrows or mirrors) to keep it safe enough. No risks in a race often makes for quite a boring race in my opinion.
I watch lots of XBox F1 videos in Stewards. They spend almost as much time using the rear view as they do looking where they are going, irrespective of proximity arrows. My argument is that a lunge is more likely to result in a collision if it is a lunge. People will make better moves if they know they have to position the car where another driver can see it.

The only good overtake is a clean overtake.

There are already too many manoeuvres that only occur because it is a game. If the simulation damage wasn't so random, I'd vote for that too. Racecraft is about looking after the car, not repeating the Ayrton Senna quote and yelling "YOLO!!" at every corner :)
 
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Kiinako

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Sep 20, 2017
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I think such things only can come with actual skill and knowledge of how a race should function.
I myself am nowhere close to the level the higher echelons of racers are, but you should always be able to prepare for the worst, and have a decent ability to predict multiple outcomes. "Risky" moves are mostly only working if you yourself are confident enough to pull the move and you trust the opponent to be confident as well (good example, me vs. Rienk in Japan)
 

Rienk

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I think such things only can come with actual skill and knowledge of how a race should function.
I myself am nowhere close to the level the higher echelons of racers are, but you should always be able to prepare for the worst, and have a decent ability to predict multiple outcomes. "Risky" moves are mostly only working if you yourself are confident enough to pull the move and you trust the opponent to be confident as well (good example, me vs. Rienk in Japan)
I'm glad you have that much trust in me for a move through 130R xD. Truth is, I didn't have it in myself and I backed out like a wuss. Completely agree with your statements though.
 

Sjoelbakkie

Formula 4 Test Driver
Dec 21, 2017
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I think the arrows are adequate in indicating if someone is close enough. If your arrow becomes red it basically means you have to leave space.
 

Neil Bywater

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I lit the blue touch paper.

I find the arrows quite distracting, but sadly Im not sure the mirrors are of sufficient quality to give a true representation of car proximity.

One thing I would say, it would put the responsibility onto the driver behind, rather than the driver in front, who tend to get crucified in stewards when the rear driver was no near half alongside into a corner. The reds are quite unfair in that situation.
 

acerees

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I can’t even see if my DRS is open or closed on some fricking mirrors :lol:
 

acerees

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I think the arrows are adequate in indicating if someone is close enough. If your arrow becomes red it basically means you have to leave space.
Not when you throw in a little lag (you need to be aware whenever you see the arrows as the car behind could be slightly closer than they appear. However It’s the car behind that needs to be cautious and make sure they pass in a safe manner and suitable place. Having been pushed, rammed and hit off track in recent races I’m a little worried that people have forgotten the ethic we have in this league for CLEAN racing.
 

Steve Jackson

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Not when you throw in a little lag (you need to be aware whenever you see the arrows as the car behind could be slightly closer than they appear. However It’s the car behind that needs to be cautious and make sure they pass in a safe manner and suitable place. Having been pushed, rammed and hit off track in recent races I’m a little worried that people have forgotten the ethic we have in this league for CLEAN racing.
Precisely why turning off the arrows might in fact help. If you can't be sure the car in front has seen you, you're less likely to risk a wing; thus jeffing your own race.

Get alongside in good time, and only make moves you can complete clean.
 
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Sjoelbakkie

Formula 4 Test Driver
Dec 21, 2017
89
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Not when you throw in a little lag (you need to be aware whenever you see the arrows as the car behind could be slightly closer than they appear. However It’s the car behind that needs to be cautious and make sure they pass in a safe manner and suitable place. Having been pushed, rammed and hit off track in recent races I’m a little worried that people have forgotten the ethic we have in this league for CLEAN racing.
People have to realise RED means DANGEROUS. I´ve been pushed off track myself a few times too, and I think everyone has. Arrows being left or right of your car is a decent indication of where they are but if they are red you have to know you are within hitting distance and have to be careful, if theres lag involved or not is not of as much importance as people seem to think.
 

Steve Jackson

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People have to realise RED means DANGEROUS. I´ve been pushed off track myself a few times too, and I think everyone has. Arrows being left or right of your car is a decent indication of where they are but if they are red you have to know you are within hitting distance and have to be careful, if theres lag involved or not is not of as much importance as people seem to think.
Game sucks, end of. It's very difficult to judge the position of a car at your rear. Look after the front and the rear takes care of itself. There are many scenarios at play here.

Racing? Defending is allowed. Weaving and brake-testing are not. Work out your opponents lines and where they look most vulnerable.
Being lapped? Get out of the way. From experience I can tell you that from a blue flag PoV the warnings are hella early.
Drivers who thank they are faster than the guy with track position? Tend to make silly / rash moves.

I can say for one my fastest race is when I don't get into an incident. I know who I can go wheel to wheel with and I know no-one is 100% blameless.

But seriously, chasing car; don't hit the car in front.

Most incidents I see are rash, unrealistic overtakes that no-one would be stupid enough IRL to take. I understand it's a game, so if you try to be Max / Senna half a dozen times in a race I guarantee you it won't come off at least once.

If we're going to be specific, yes I was surprised by the overtake in my video by yourself and @yoan97222. I had no option but to comply, because the game pretty much decided you were through before I even saw you. But to take my line like I did every lap (and let's face it, gets harder to be accurate when the tyres start to go) I would have took you both out an instant later. It's never my aim or intent.

I see this in Stewards across all the leagues. Most incidents fall into the latter category.
 

Sjoelbakkie

Formula 4 Test Driver
Dec 21, 2017
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Game sucks, end of. It's very difficult to judge the position of a car at your rear. Look after the front and the rear takes care of itself. There are many scenarios at play here.

Racing? Defending is allowed. Weaving and brake-testing are not. Work out your opponents lines and where they look most vulnerable.
Being lapped? Get out of the way. From experience I can tell you that from a blue flag PoV the warnings are hella early.
Drivers who thank they are faster than the guy with track position? Tend to make silly / rash moves.

I can say for one my fastest race is when I don't get into an incident. I know who I can go wheel to wheel with and I know no-one is 100% blameless.

But seriously, chasing car; don't hit the car in front.

Most incidents I see are rash, unrealistic overtakes that no-one would be stupid enough IRL to take. I understand it's a game, so if you try to be Max / Senna half a dozen times in a race I guarantee you it won't come off at least once.

If we're going to be specific, yes I was surprised by the overtake in my video by yourself and @yoan97222. I had no option but to comply, because the game pretty much decided you were through before I even saw you. But to take my line like I did every lap (and let's face it, gets harder to be accurate when the tyres start to go) I would have took you both out an instant later. It's never my aim or intent.

I see this in Stewards across all the leagues. Most incidents fall into the latter category.
Yea you're right, it is pretty difficult to judge. With experience though it becomes better to judge and to drive more safely. Especially in F1 2017 when they introduced red arrows it helped me a bunch to not crash into other drivers. Downside of that is being more susceptible to aggressive overtakes, but you just have to deal with that.

If you look into my race, especially lap 1 where i fell down from 7th to 10th, there's certainly some dangerous stuff going on where i would say it's better to wait a bit untill its spread out more, but it's racing so I can't go around saying you can't overtake, it's just being aware of your surroundings and trusting in your opponents to keep you alive.

Like the 130R in Japan, for me it was crucial to get past as soon as possible as I stopped quite late and had to catch up time.
It's not about trying to be a Senna, its about identifying a relatively safe gap and racing someone for it. I knew it could've gone right just as easily as it did go wrong, like with @Kiinako and @Rienk , but its racing and **** happens. Next time we'd come there I would put just as much trust in you as the last time as I believe every one here is a respectable driver and knows what they're doing.

Anyway, I don't think we're professional racers so I don't feel like taking away the arrows is a good idea. From my point of view I think I would try to be more aware of the surroundings but at the same time I think I will be more unaware than not which will probably cause more crashes than with arrows.

As for the overtake with you and @yoan97222 , I don't know if you've seen my video but you lost quite a bit of speed battling Yoan which made me almost crash into your back (looking at your video it's probably a combination of that + being at 94 MPH in 6th gear), I already broke for the corner and was off throttle so I think it was more lucky that I could go past on the inside (looking at how much i was behind you before the corner i also didn't expect overtaking you, it kind of just surprised me as well.)

Yoan was 4 wheels off track btw, didnt notice that before :p
1521062647764.png
 
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Neil Bywater

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Yea you're right, it is pretty difficult to judge. With experience though it becomes better to judge and to drive more safely. Especially in F1 2017 when they introduced red arrows it helped me a bunch to not crash into other drivers. Downside of that is being more susceptible to aggressive overtakes, but you just have to deal with that.

If you look into my race, especially lap 1 where i fell down from 7th to 10th, there's certainly some dangerous stuff going on where i would say it's better to wait a bit untill its spread out more, but it's racing so I can't go around saying you can't overtake, it's just being aware of your surroundings and trusting in your opponents to keep you alive.

Like the 130R in Japan, for me it was crucial to get past as soon as possible as I stopped quite late and had to catch up time.
It's not about trying to be a Senna, its about identifying a relatively safe gap and racing someone for it. I knew it could've gone right just as easily as it did go wrong, like with @Kiinako and @Rienk , but its racing and **** happens. Next time we'd come there I would put just as much trust in you as the last time as I believe every one here is a respectable driver and knows what they're doing.

Anyway, I don't think we're professional racers so I don't feel like taking away the arrows is a good idea. From my point of view I think I would try to be more aware of the surroundings but at the same time I think I will be more unaware than not which will probably cause more crashes than with arrows.

As for the overtake with you and @yoan97222 , I don't know if you've seen my video but you lost quite a bit of speed battling Yoan which made me almost crash into your back (looking at your video it's probably a combination of that + being at 94 MPH in 6th gear), I already broke for the corner and was off throttle so I think it was more lucky that I could go past on the inside (looking at how much i was behind you before the corner i also didn't expect overtaking you, it kind of just surprised me as well.)

Yoan was 4 wheels off track btw, didnt notice that before :p
View attachment 39229
Max V, COTA esque:D
 
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